Flying E36 in F1Q

[Randy Reynolds]

MMM holds the America's CUP FAI Annual with 14 rounds over two days at our field in Colorado at 6400' altitude. This year F1Q was to be held over 14 rounds also. Since the club has a fairly active E36 contingent several people were considering flying this event. My son Todd and I had a couple of larger 400 sq. in. F1Q models on the boards but due to work conflicts couldn't finish them.

As it turned out only three flyers entered F1Q all with E36 models. Using the calculation method these models were limited to about an eight-nine second motor run and this was pretty discouraging to most. Some of this was because of very high winds for the 36" models on the first day. So overall not a good introductory event for F1Q this year and hopefully we can see better results next year. Clearly the calculation method failed for E36 models as the motor run length was simply too short for a 3 minute max. Perhaps using the full watt number recorded by the Watt's Up meter isn't going to attract competitors so maybe a percentage of that number?

Just for the record in E36 the 15 second motor run was no "automatic" guarantee of a max as some have suggested. There were 5-6 of us in that event in fairly good weather. but only one max-out by Don DeLoach but he dropped the 5 second round badly with a 47 second flight. One aspect to not forget is that these are small, fast models that can have a very short half life if something goes wrong. My son's first flight gained normal high altitude on the motor run but glided in at under one minute in down air. His second flight went up in a thermal and at the end of the motor run it was extremely small and I needed binoculars as I was timing. So things can get very exciting in E36 for sure.

[Aram Schlosberg]

Randy,
Glad to learn that E-36s were enlisted to fly in Q. At least it shows how flexible the Q rules are!

[Randy Reynolds]

Good comments Aram. I would consider also to while a 14 rounder over two days certainly is an attrition contest (what contest isn't?) it also allows some recovery time from mistakes. By the way last year Blake Jensen and Eddie Vanlandingham tied at the end of 14 rounds and entered a flyoff which Jensen won. Also this year Charlie Jones the new owner of FAI Supply maxed out and won a Blue Jacket in tough weather conditions.

Don't miss my point though which is that the calculation method needs fixing. Using the peak watt reading doesn't work and is an additional handicap versus EL equipped models. There were no EL equipped models at the MMM FAI Annual which was a good thing. If we took the average watt reading for an E36 they would have been given about a 12 second motor run which makes some sense for a three minute max. Eight seconds which is what the max watts yielded isn't accurate for the method.

[Aram Schlosberg]

Randy,
Personally, I don’t have a problem if the MMM wants to hold 14-rounders for A, B and C. It’s the only contest in that format and this has always been their tradition or selling feature. The term ‘attrition’ is specifically used for 14 rounders, which never have flyoffs. In other words, the chance of having two fliers max out in are virtually nil. In my youth, I considered 14-rounders a challenge, but now have come to view it as an attrition contest and don’t intend to ever fly in one.

As to measuring a motor’s wattage. It was introduced specifically to give Q a life line, while switching to Energy Limiters. I know some fliers who take two measurements to get their correct average wattage. (A by-the-book CD could enforce a single measurement at the beginning of the motor run.) Don't think there is a short term fix but at least the performance is high enough during the regular rounds. I hope that the more committed Q fliers would switch to energy limiters and gain the 20-25% advantage that an EL offers.

[Dan Berry]

Randy, it has been made clear that an energy limiter is essential for f1Q, otherwise you lose 25-30% of available motor.
E36 planes in F1Q are just a way to pass the time. No EL is just passing time as well.

[Randy Reynolds]

I would concede all these observations. That said, consider if F1Q decided NOT to use EL devices (oh, the humanity!) then we can agree that the calculation method should be fixed. It's not a bad system and it provides for a variety of design options as long as it can be sorted out. Because an EL device has the aforementioned 25% advantage makes for a pretty uneven playing field right now until the rules can be "fixed" during the next cycle.

If it is projected that all F1Q events will eventually be flown with EL devices and the calculation method is just a temporary patch then likely not many American flyer will get interested. Ideally E36/A Electric and B Electric AMA events would supply plenty of interested contestants for the international class but as it stands that's not going to happen. I'm not whining about it rather just being frustrated. If contest directors can't have any options but to strictly follow the rules then there won't be much in the way of developed interest.

[Aram Schlosberg]

I like Randy’s attitude. Q is a great open ended event. Local contest directors could allow those who use wattmeters a head start by using a longer motor run if everyone agrees. And once the EL technology is mastered I believe is will spread to other free flight electric events.

Agree with Dan that E-36s are non competitive with Q models.

[Aram Schlosberg]

Guys,
This has something to do the F1Q, So it might be appropriate to announce a new F1Q kit by BMJR called 'Noah's Quark'. The kit is based on Bernie Crowe's model with the same name (leave it up to an ex-Englishman to come up with a Biblical-physic's name). The wing is built from four parts with straight and diagonal ribs, with the tips tapered forward. Of note is that the wing panels are butt glued to each other (no braces) and Bernie claims he has never had any problems using such a joint. I've built the wing's center panels and the stab before the Nats, but was side tracked into other things. Two such kits were awarded at the Nats, one to the E-36 fun flyoff winner (Mark Freeland) and another one was supposed to be awarded as a raffle prize at the Thursday cookout.

So for anyone interested to wet his toe with a simple and solid F1Q kit should contact BMJR for details. I might add that Rex Henson usually maxes out with his Noah's Quark, claiming he made no post-building adjustments.

[Randy Reynolds]

We just concluded the Rocky Mountain Free Flight Championships in Denver, Colorado. Attendance was down quite a lot this year and the weather was a bit cranky. Following the FAI Annual in mid-July where we only had three entrants, all E36's, there was only one F1Q flyer each on Saturday and Sunday, all E36's.

Jerry Murphy ran several tests with an advanced Agilent digital O'scope which provided screen traces of the motor run throughout the duration of 15 seconds. What it revealed is that the Max burst watts is seriously higher than the average of the run...many by as much as 50%. This is of course an indictment of the calculation method. Murphy was the official in charge of this portion of the contest so he used the watt reading at five seconds and this yielded a better opportunity for flyers to actually have a go at the three minute task.

So in a period of six weeks in two week-end events contestants had an opportunity to fly 24 rounds of F1Q. However only two people took the challenge. Meanwhile we had eight flyers in E36 with three of them reaching the 10 second round and none making the five second motor run flyoff round.

I hope that interest in F1Q will grow in our area but I think it isn't well appreciated just yet. Even E36 feels pretty new and most of the models aren't being flown very consistently. Next year for E36 will likely be a pretty big year and as more people fly Electric A?B as well we'll find more people flying F1Q. Hopefully we can take a look at the calculation method and refine it between now and then.

[jack.murphy]

It will be interesting to see how F1Q will be processed in Eloy in January. Hope Peter or someone has a plan. I am building a high thrust version of Don Deloach's Super Pearl scaled to 256. I dub these high thrust SPs "Pole Dancer"s. I have two E36s and two radical high aspect ratio models that are buggers to trim. Hoping the 256 is a happy medium. Hopefully I'll see y'all there.

[Peter Brocks]

Jack Murphy made the statement "It will be interesting to see how F1Q will be processed in Eloy in January. Hope Peter or someone has a plan.".

As the the CD for the FAI portion of the Soutwest Regionals in Eloy I will be mainly concerned about safety and fairness. Having the proper flightline away from parking according to the wind direction is one example for that. "Processing" that is weighing of rubber motors, checking towline lengths and measurings Watts is important but typically not done by the CD. If somebody shows up with an E36 model to fly in F1Q it should have been "self certified" as to the max. motor run per the F1Q rules. If this has not been done before coming to Eloy then it has to be measured and calculated before it is flown in the contest.

See you in Eloy, Peter

[jack.murphy]

Thanks Peter, I look forward to seeing you and Bridget. I'll weigh my models and do the calculations. I dearly love the Eloy January contest though this will be the first year I fly any F1 categories. Seems to me two years ago the flight lines were together as opposed to last year. Being in close proxitmity is to be desired in my view. Saves on the back and forth, eh? It is a wonderful contest and better if we are not all spread out. My best to you and your family and I thank you for all you do! -j