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I received a short report from one of my timer customers about electric flying at this World Cup Contest held one week ago:
There were 9 competitors in F1Q, including participants from Italy, Austria, Finland, and Germany (5). The event was won by A. Linder using a 9 second motor run, straight-up climbing model, which bunted just like an F1C. The flight times are viewable here:Click to access 2009-EuroflyGesamtrangliste.pdf
At the Eurofly World Cup near Bern, Switzerland. 2 F1Q flyers crashed before the contest and could not fly. Then the first 3 rounds were with a 20 sec. motor run, the next 2 rounds were with a 15 sec. motor run (only 5 rounds because of daylight). In the first fly-off 3 flyers had a 10 sec. motor run. Lindner and Gerlach maxed again and had a 5 sec. motor run for the second fly-off. Linder straight up, maxed again without problem. Gerlach could not program his timer to 5. sec. so he had to hold it from a setting of 10 seconds which gave him only a motor run of about 2.5 seconds.
We fly F1Q at two America’s Cup contests here in Eloy, AZ on Dec. 5 (AZ Champs) and Jan. 16 (SWR).
Peter
Peter,
Thanks for the added information on the motor runs, flyoffs, etc. Your Eurofly sources are more detailed than mine, even though my info came from the Finnish competitor who was there. Gerlach should have used my timer … no problem programming to 5 seconds or less.I would really love to know more about Linder’s model, e.g. motor, prop, battery, model size, c.g. location, trim method, etc.
Yes, I would like to fly at Eloy… a great field. My son and I were there several years ago. I’ll try to schedule-in SWR.
Dick
Dick,
Attached is the 3-view of Andreas Lindner’s No. 10 F1Q.
At last year’s SWR we had 9 flyers in F1Q.
Peter
Peter
Good to see a 3-view of Andreas’ model. I’ve worked with him for some time on the necessary features for my F1Q timers.
As you can see this is quite a sophisticated model that bunts so he does use more than one servo to control the stab F1A style and rudder.
Roger
Peter,
Many thanks for posting Andreas’ F1Q model! I’ve been trying for awhile to get some information on this model. It’s relatively large (37.25 dm^2) and uses a direct drive out-runner – not gears according to some rumors. Of interest is the prop-wing overlap. Evidently Andreas has to start the motor a low RPM while pointing the nose downwards, rotate the model to a launch pitch, and speed up the motor upon launching. This can easily be done with a Morrell F1Q timer. His blades might hit the wing while folding, but there might be a guard not shown in the plan.It also great to learn that an auto surface F1Q can do 3 minutes with a 5 second motor run! Wow!
To an upcoming F1Q contest in the north east. I’ve applied for a F1Q World Cup event next year at Wawayanda NY on June 26-7 2010 as part of a Skyscrapers’s meet (also an American Cup). Larry Bagalini has already said he will attend and I’m hoping that one or two Europeans would also show. It could be a great F1Q contest!
Aram,
The prop will not hit the wing. The Aeronaut 13×8 is hinged at a diameter of about 42mm and the prop diameter is about 330mm. When it folds back that dimension is about 94mm. The plan shows 90mm prop hinge point to leading edge wing. The wing is on a pylon therefore the prop tips clear it. 😀
The Hyperion G2220-14 motor data can be found here http://www.brushless-lipoly-shop.de/g22xxdata.htm
You should come out to Eloy for the 60th SWR http://www.aalmps.com/10info.htm ,
Peter
Unfortunately, the Hyperion G2220-14 motor is no longer available.
Dick
Edit: I just found a new one for sale on a R/C user forum … bought it.
It’s good to see the Lindner F1Q at last. I’ve seen the results and heard from another flyer in UK that it has great performance but this is the first time I’ve seen a copy of a drawing.
Has anyone on the forum actually seen it fly? Does he let it climb for the full motor run? Is it straight up all the way? I was advised that the power pattern is good for the first 10 secs or so but can go a bit haywire after that. A leading F1C flyer over here advised me that it would have to have a positive turn if it was to be flown for the full run time of 25 secs.
It looks to me like an F1Q version of an F1C. Where did the drawing come from? Can anyone work out the wing span – I’ve enlarged the picture but can’t get a clear view of the dimensions.
Most of you guys in the US seem to fly F1Q with traditional-style, locked down surface power models with high revving, small radius props (I do too over here). Most of the models I’ve seen fly in something other than this traditional way seem to suffer from problems during the power phase. Yet here’s the successful Lindner machine that looks like a modern power model but with a prop that’s more like a rubber prop – surely the effect of the counter torque will come into play as opposed to the precession that’s more noticable at high speeds.
I was also surprised to see the wing loading which comes out at about 6.6oz/sqft. My best F1Q comes in at about 5.1oz/sqft but I’d have to find some good lift to get 3 mins from a 5 sec power run.
This highly succesful model certainly begs a lot of questions.
Cheers – Tony
Tony, we heard that it will do 3+ minutes on 5 secs. He doesn’t need to run it 25 secs. !0 secs maybe. What is described would OOS in 25 secs.
I have been able to make direct contact with Andreas Lindner. He is a very friendly guy, and more than willing to share ideas about his model and F1Q in general.
First off, Andreas acknowledged that his model cannot consistently do 3 minutes off a 5 second motor run. To make the max he must have: 1. a perfect bunt and 2. some thermal assist.
His model has 3 servos: one for stab, one for rudder, and another for right wing incidence. All servos directly drive the flight surfaces via carbon push rods. The flight schedule is as follows:
The right wing has a fixed 1 degree positive incidence (relative to the left wing) during the climb. There are no flight-surface movements during the climb.
At motor stop, the right wing goes back to normal incidence, right rudder kicks in, and the stab goes down to bunt position.
One second later the stab goes to glide position.
Not said, but I will confirm later, is that the stab is in a fixed power setting during the climb.Dick
Interesting information! A one degree wash-in of the right wing during climb, corresponds to a trailing edge (TE) drop of .117”. My F1B’s TE edge is raised in climb by .060”, or 0.794 degrees. (Both are equivalent changes.) Both models have large props and have to deal with the large rotating slip steam behind their props. And both models reduce the wing twist at the end of the motor run. Geared F1C models also raise their left TE a bit (about .020” or .194 degrees) during the first 2-3 seconds of climb. But they accelerate much faster than their slower relatives (F1Bs and F1Qs).
At least it’s clear that auto surface F1Q models with large props need a wing twist during the climb. Thank you Andreas and Dick.
John,
F1Qs only have about 250 Watts. F1Qs reach their terminal speed after about a second or two. F1Cs have about a horse and a half, or over a thousand Watts and accelerates throughout their five seconds climb.The electric motor actually loose power as the batteries are drawn down. F1Qs also need their wing’s lift so folders (with a symmetrical airfoil) will certainly hurt. Flappers might show up in the future. You are welcome to prove me wrong 🙂
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