How Many Indoor fliers would…..

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  • #41711
    JLorbiecki
    Participant

    like to see a NATS west of the Mississippi? Would you be willing to attend one that was in Arizona, california, or somewhere else west?

    Thinking out loud…

    John Lorbiecki

    #51599
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Such as Kibbe ?? Tennessee is closer, cheaper for us non retired retired guys. Love Kibbe tho,

    #51600
    Roger Morrell
    Participant

    Ive been motivated by Tustin flying so would go to a Western one.

    Roger

    #51598
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Never got to go to a California Nats, however sounds like a bucket list entry for me. I flew in a few F1D Finals and always heard the air in Tustin can be very good at times. An eye condition has put my indoor participation on hold., so I fly outdoor. No one wants me to time for them !! I fly F1A with Spence……..later jesse

    #51601
    JLorbiecki
    Participant

    anyone else want to chime in? The more input the better!

    #51602
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Well, I guess you and I have 1st and second all wrapped up ,John !

    #51603
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi John,

    Congratulations on your new position – I’m sure FF in general, and Indoor FF in particular, will benefit from some fresh ideas.

    It would be fair to move the Indoor Nats around the country, but I think we need to shore up our collection of major sites, first. It’s kind of like asking if we should go to the drag strip or an autocross meet, but all our cars are in various stages of disrepair.

    Johnson City has the new issue of the conference banners, Kibbie needs a sustainable funding model, and Tustin has been doing well but future access is continuously tentative. Several new sites hold promise, but need to be proven (there are lots of potentially “good” sites, but the rare combination of a “great” site that we can actually access and afford makes those that we have gems to be treasured).

    We need a self-sustaining, major site in each area of the country. Most participants will drive to big contests – some people will pack up their models and fly, but most will only go where they can reach by car. For example, my F1D program is very portable, as it needs to be for international competition. But, I’m not prepared to bring my Nats repertoire on an airline. The collection fills up just about every space in my SRT-4, including the passenger seat. No way I’m getting that through checked baggage without a lot of work.

    Once we have a network of major contests that can support themselves, and we don’t have to worry that promoting one site might kill another, then certainly we should rotate the Nats. And USIC for that matter – no reason they need to be held in the same place. It would be great to have prestigious events at different locations in the same year.

    So how do we get there? We grow our feeder system of local and regional events (and, thus, people to attend the major events), and work on getting access to new major sites in case we lose the ones we have (though, once we recognize the true value of the great sites we have, we’ll understand that we shouldn’t let them go without a fight).

    BTW – if you want to get your question in front of more Indoor FFers, I recommend posting on the Indoor_construction forum (groups.yahoo.com/group/indoor_construction). That’s the most highly participated Indoor FF forum currently.

    John Kagan

    #51604
    Jake Palmer
    Participant

    I would basically echo most of what John said and add that I’m not likely to attend USIC unless it is on the west coast. It’s an event that requires driving and I live in Washington. My site of choice is the Kibbie Dome because it’s closest to me, but I would also make the trip to Tustin if it was there.

    Jake Palmer

    #51605
    jim buxton
    Participant

    As John said, congrats John! It is nice to have the new NFFS president immediately engaging the indoor cult…I mean crowd.

    I agree with much of what John said. We need to identify sites, quality, assured, affordable sites and work outwards from there. I would like to see if we can access some of the older sites that have been renovated over the years. Pipe derams as they may be, West Baden and the Akron Airdock come to mind.

    Additionally, John brings up a good point. Is there a potential to separate the USIC and the NATS again. In my opinion why have only one big event a year when you can have two? Is this feasible? I am not sure.

    I have flown from Ohio to both Kibbie and Tustin to fly indoor gliders, so I am not opposed to travel *if* the event merits it. I would love to see the event within an 8 hour drive of Ohio. As long as it is not a permanent move to the California (perhaps and alternating East West schedule) I think it could be beneficial to the indoor cult.
    ~Jim Buxton

    #51606
    Jake Palmer
    Participant

    @glider90 wrote:

    perhaps and alternating East West schedule) I think it could be beneficial to the indoor cult.

    I like the idea of an alternating schedule. When was the last time USIC/NATS wasn’t at Johnson City? Tradition is nice, but it’s hard for those of us that don’t live within driving distance.

    #51607
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The title of the contest doesn’t mean much to me. As long as it is a “major” event and lots of people go, I’m fine with it.

    We should have as many annual national level contests as there are national level sites. AMA Indoor FF Nats, US Indoor Championships, North American Championships, whatever.

    Having the sites is the key.

    Andrew Tagliafico was left holding the “shortfall” bag after some previous Kibbie Dome Annuals. That should never happen. The community has already demonstrated they are willing to kick in whatever it reasonably takes, per the Tustin meets, given the opportunity. We need to make sure nobody who has put in the effort to procure a”great” site is left hanging.

    Tustin appears generally affordable in stand-by mode. A national level contest would require a more expensive locked-in date, preferably in the warmer months for the rubber events (I’d think warm would be good for gliders, too, even though it seems that all the records have been set in the cold months – don’t know why. Jim?)

    A $20 per contestant surcharge would cover the banners at Johnson City. I think people would go for it to keep the contest going.

    I agree with Jim, there are some other site out there that deserve a coordinated effort to try to obtain. Akron, Weeks, Rio de Janeiro (admittedly a little outside our scope – but have you seen the airdock??). Plus a bunch of the sports stadiums. The Colt’s stadium is near-ish to Muncie. Looks great on TV.

    #51608
    JLorbiecki
    Participant

    Great conversation! Keep it up so thatthe Indoor community has a big voice in where the USIC ends up. The banner situation at JC is going to cost $1300 to R&R. AMA has agreed this year to accomplish this. However, we may not be able to sustain this contribution.

    On a side note, I understand there is a site in Arizona. Has anyone attended it and, if so, what is their opinion of this site. It turns out they may actually want us there and may be willing to do some things to get us.

    I guess I should build a indoor something….How short of an engine run would I need on my F1J model?

    #51609
    Maxout
    Participant

    While I think it’s only fair that we have a contest available for the West Coast crowd, we need to keep an annual event at Johnson City if possible. There are a lot of up and coming fliers in Tennessee (think the Smyrna group) who would be lost from major flying events but for USIC. The idea of a split Nats/USIC has promise. Trade them back and forth each year so that each coast has a major contest to attend each year.

    I’m unable to attend a contest at Kibbie and the like for the forseeable future. Perhaps my goals are somewhat self-serving, but as an F1D newbie, I love Johnson City for its proximity and the stable air. It has the least drift of any site I’ve visited, so even with the obstacles present, I never came close to hanging up on anything during my first visit there last year. And it’s impossible for most mortals to pack a Nats fleet into a box small enough for airline carry on. Perhaps this is why HLS sees so little interest these days. 🙁

    I personally don’t see the banners as a major issue. Tack it onto the entry fees. I’m willing to pay a little extra for a good flying site like JC.

    And as a side note, those looking to recruit more juniors need to look at getting some of the Smyrna kids into F1D. Just a thought…

    #51610
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hi John,

    Something very important to keep in mind: A “great” indoor site is gold. There are lots of tall buildings, but it is a significant challenge to find one that has good air, few obstructions, is reachable by car for a significant population, is reasonably affordable, etc.

    We need to continually search for new sites, but we need to treasure the ones in hand.

    The Round Valley Ensphere in Eagar AZ is a new site. We will be flying there for the first time this year. Hopefully it will be good or even great. It would be nice to have a major site in that area.

    However, it would not constitute a good replacement for Johnson City. I doubt many of the 75+ USIC attendees would be able to make the trek to AZ.

    #51611
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    …if we spread the cost of the banner removal and replacement across the Johnson City entrants, even just 50 of them, we get just a $26 surcharge.

    Obviously we don’t want endless increases, but I believe the cost is still within the range of what people would accept for this site.

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